I’m up in arms… Guns at school?!?!?
On a bulletin board that I frequent we were discussing a story in the news about an Oregon Teacher who wants the right to carry her weapon to school with her. She has a concealed weapons permit- but weapons aren’t allowed on school grounds.
I thought that of course- that made sense. I thought it was a general rule- much like you aren’t allowed to bring drugs or alcohol or smoke on school grounds that guns weren’t allowed. My sister Jessica and I were discussing it last night. She’s a teacher. She’s taught at an ‘at risk’ school in Boston. (Correct me if that’s wrong Jess). She doesn’t see when it would have been appropriate for teachers to be armed.
I agree. A teacher’s job is to teach students- not to shoot at them.
Fast forward to this morning. I find this article. I call my school district. Their policy is ‘in compliance with Utah State Law that if a person’s has a concealed carry permit they are allowed to carry a weapon on school grounds.’
I asked for clarification.
‘Even teachers, even cafeteria workers, even guests on the property’.
Do they have to inform the principal they’re carrying a weapon?
‘no.’
This deeply concerns me. We don’t own guns. We will never have a gun in our home. Ever. We don’t hunt and we’re not in the military or in law enforcement. I don’t see a logical reason to have a gun in our home. I don’t think guns and kids should ever mix. I think if you have a gun then you have to follow every safety precaution that is available. Locks, safes, bullets not kept on the premises. Not doing that is irresponsible. It’s like driving a car without buckling up your kids or having a swimming pool without a fence. Safety precautions that are essential to the protection of your kids. I understand that for some people owning a gun is a big deal and a right they can’t live without. I respect that. I don’t understand it- but I respect it.
But I don’t understand how that translates to teachers carrying a lethal weapons to schools isn’t endangering our children. Utah is a deeply republican/conservative gun loving state. But it’s also a state full of children. I’m not sure if my voice can make a difference. But for the safety of my children at school I’m going to be trying.
I’ve put in a call to our school principal. I’ve got some questions for him. I’m not sure where I’m going from here.
But I want to have a conversation about this. Tell me why it’s a good thing. Tell me why it’s a bad thing. Mostly I want statistics. Unbiased straight numbers. Link away. I’m not saying to take away all the guns. I don’t hate the constitution or our ‘rights’. I just simply think that guns at schools in the hands of teachers is a bad idea.
Talk to me.
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OK, here’s an opinion from someone who works in a large school district and sees this ALSO from a PR perspective.
Scenario I: Student at a campus has a gun and threatens other students in class. Teacher does not have a gun. Students and teacher are killed in the process. According to the media, who is at fault? The teacher. Why? For not having a gun to protect the students. What is the solution? Arm teachers.
Scenario II: Student at a campus has a gun and threatens other students in class. Teacher DOES have a gun. Teacher fires at student with the gun and kills the student. According to the media, who is in trouble? The teacher for shooting this student in their class. Why? Because perhaps the gun wasn’t loaded or the poor, troubled student had no intention of harming anyone. (We’ll never know now.) (Interesting angle from the media: the rest of the students in class are traumatized watching their teacher shoot a fellow student and live with a life-long fear of educators.) What’s the solution? Take away guns from teachers.
You just can’t win with this. The real issue should be what is most important: STUDENT SAFETY. Does arming teachers contribute to the safety of our students? The odds of a campus shooting like Columbine or VA Tech are so small when compared to the number of schools in session throughout this country on a daily basis. Am I saying this could never happen in YOUR school?! Heck, no. But we are reacting to something that is a perceived threat.
Whew! I had no idea all of that was going to spill out. So, I’m generally not in favor of arming teachers. I have several more paragraphs worth of opinion here, but I’ll close for now.
Keep us updated on this, Amber. I find it very interesting. And please, I beg you, before you call the media on your school district, talk to me.
Thanks Jamie. I promise I’ll call you before I call the media. I agree with the scope of the problem as well. When school shootings do happen they are rare. They are so widely talked about in the media because it happens so rarely. The answer isn’t putting more guns in more schools.
I just talked to the Principal of Ashley’s school. I asked him if he was aware of the district policy regarding concealed weapons. He wasn’t. So I informed him. Then I asked if he was aware of any teachers carrying weapons to school. He wasn’t. But then again they don’t have to inform him if they are. We talked about the implications of that a bit. (Have I mentioned how much I like Ashley’s principal?) I asked about the safety policy in the school and what they would do in the instance of a shooter.
But basically there is nothing that the principal can do.
Time to call the school district.
Also- the teacher in the first story. If she is that afraid of her ex ‘coming to get her’ that she needs a gun to protect herself at all times then is it wise to put a classroom (and a school full) of students at risk?
Amber,
I did not know that about Utah schools. And I grew up in Utah schools!! I wonder if any of my teachers had guns. This is my waivering opinion. It probably won’t help, because I have no statics, just opinion. But it may play a bit of devil’s advocate, which is always helpful.
A basic political theroy is that the way to control factions is to encourage factions, hence the way to control bad people carrying guns is to encourage others around them to carry guns. You would be less likely to attempt to go “shoot up” your school if you thought that the first person you came in contact with had a gun he could turn on you. Attention-seeking people don’t typically attempt to “shoot up” a police station or military base because they know they would get shot immediatly. Instead, they go to places were people are thought to be unarmed and vulnerable to their cowardly acts, like schools and shopping malls.
If someone ever goes into a place armed, with the intent to hurt whoever they see and my child is that place, I pray that someone else in that same place has a gun and can stop them from harming my child and others.
On the other hand, I 150% agree with you that guns and children don’t mix. Not for recreation, not for protection. Children don’t understand or should not have to understand the impact that a gun or any other deadly weapon can have. My uncle was killed by a child in a hunting accident. Obviously, my children will never participate in any recreational activities involving guns. I think there are pleanty of other activities which we can find to participate.
I think the concept of having guns on hand at schools to rely on, if needed, is good and it could absolutely save lives. But that same concept opens up a whole other can of worms. I would feel more comfortable if each campus had an armed cop present, rather than an armed teacher.
I think the presence of a trained, weapon-baring officer on campus would discourage violent acts.
The bottom line is, it all starts in the home. Parents need to make sure that their children leave the house each day knowing that it doesn’t matter if someone at school makes fun of them or they get rejected by a crush. Kids should know they will come home each night to a place where they are loved and accepted. I have always been a big advocate of dealing with the root problem rather than cleaning up each individual mess, leaving the root problem untouched.
I remember when I was in school, we had a class called “Self-Concept” that helped us feel comfortable with ourselves and have a high self-esteem. Maybe something like that should be brought back, since some kids don’t get that at home???
Amen, sistah!
From a girl whose father was in law enforcement for 30 years we had guns on our home. I never played with it or was ever interested in them. My brother and I both knew they were in the house. My parents were very good at teaching us about them, showing them to us (just for curiosity sake), and even taking us target shooting several times. We knew they were dangerous and we knew they were in our home. My parents never kept them from us and so we paid little attention to them being there. My dad said something interesting a few months back when he retired we all were asking for cops stories. OF course a few asked if he had ever shot someone. In THIRTY years of work HE NEVER SHOT SOMEONE! He gave the reason that his actions were always from the head, not from the hand. I thought that to be significant. Criminals seem to be getting more brazen, more ballsy and less respectful of our law enforcement, laws, and citizens. EDUCATION is key here. It is key in everything. Guns are never a solution, in or out of school. It starts at home, most definitely, but we also need to flood ourselves with the proper education outside the home, too. Firearms in school will not help the value of education nor the protection of our children. With that being said I am not sure what the right solution is either. I am glad you are taking a positive action and standing up for our children’s learning experience. I am eager to follow your efforts and quick to offer a hand in helping. Good luck in this fight - I got your back girl!
I just wanted to add a scenario after reading through every one’s comments. If there is a another student or person who thinks they want to harm someone in retaliation and know they can find a gun AT school IN the classroom - who’s to say they would not find the means to get the gun from the teacher (stealing or wrestling the teacher for it) just to carry out their plan?! People try often to get a police officer’s gun and they are trained to not let it get to that…will we then have to train our teacher’s in self-defense, martial arts, or some other form of fending off an estranged mad man? Seems the cycle may never end and never offer a reasonable and responsible safe solution.
Holy crap! I really had no idea! My husband is a high school librarian. It is not an easy job. Sometimes it can be scary. What he and I will never agree to is succumb to that fear and potentially add a deadly weapon into the fray. The act of owning (much less carrying) a gun brings that instrument of harm (not safety) into play in ways we may never know. If someone finds it. If we ever used it. If it was turned against us and used on us. For our family, our only recourse is to not participate.
Thanks for the info. I’m going to ask some more questions at my kids’ school as well as my husband’s. (File this under questions I never knew I would have to ask.) Ug.
I agree with Kristi. My father had guns in our home and we were taught all the safety rules and knew that they were not a toy. It is all a matter of education. My problem with guns in schools is two things:
1. It’s scary enough to send our children into the hands of strangers without them having a weapon for them to misuse. Just like students, not all teachers are good.
2. When giving a teacher a gun, you are potentially putting “law enforcment” into the hands of someone who is untrained to handle stressful situations. The scenario of the teacher who shoots a student that he perceived as a threat. Would there have been a better way to handle the situation? Could it cause more harm than good?
3. (OK I have more.) The possibility of disturbed students getting ahold of gun and using them against other students or teachers.
Sad that this is even a debate.
A thing that shocks me though is it’s not just teachers who can bring a gun to school. ANYONE can bring a gun into a school if they have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. That includes not only teachers, but aides, librarians, janitors, lunch ladies, and visitors. None of these people have to tell anyone that they are doing it.
I looked into the rules for getting a concealed weapons permit. You pay $65, don’t have a criminal background and take a 4 hour class. That’s it. So basically anyone can have a permit to carry a weapon. Which means just anyone can carry a weapon into a school.
Hey,
I know you probably won’t agree with me but,I grew up with several guns in my house, and was taught to not touch them. My Dad is a hunter and works for the Police Department and has taught me to respect the 2nd amendment. I believe that guns are not bad and that we should be able to have them in accordance to the laws to protect ourselves.
I for one would absolutely feel safer knowing that my teacher or my daughters teacher had the ability to protect me or her if anyone were to storm the school or classroom.
http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFLCarry.html
It is unlawful to carry concealed weapons into:
* Any secure area in which firearms are prohibited and notice of the prohibition is posted
* A secure area of an airport
* Any courthouse, churches if posted, mental health facility or correctional facility that may provide by rule that no firearm may be transported, sold, given, or possessed upon the facility. At least one notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance to a secure area in which a dangerous weapon, firearm, or explosive is restricted
Churches includes The LDS church in Utah. FYI.
I also respect the 2nd amendment. But if it’s not violating our 2nd amendment rights to prohibit guns in courthouses then why is it violating our rights to prohibit them in schools?
I’m another one of those people who grew up with guns in the home but also had parents who were smart enough to teach us about them. For a while, I was even licensed to carry a gun (made for interesting conversation while dating!) but am not any longer. This is one of those arguments that can go back and forth without ever coming to an agreement.
I do not think guns should be allowed in schools except those carried by police officers. As JmeL said, you just can’t win in that situation, no matter what your intentions may be.